#482 – Pavel Durov: Telegram, Freedom, Censorship, Money, Power & Human Nature

Show notes

Pavel Durov is the founder and CEO of Telegram. Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: [https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc]( https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc">https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/ep482-sc See below for timestamps, transcript, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. **Transcript:** [https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript]( https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript">https://lexfridman.com/pavel-durov-transcript **CONTACT LEX:** **Feedback** – give feedback to Lex: [https://lexfridman.com/survey]( https://lexfridman.com/survey">https://lexfridman.com/survey **AMA** – submit questions, videos or call-in: [https://lexfridman.com/ama]( https://lexfridman.com/ama">https://lexfridman.com/ama **Hiring** – join our team: [https://lexfridman.com/hiring]( https://lexfridman.com/hiring">https://lexfridman.com/hiring **Other** – other ways to get in touch: [https://lexfridman.com/contact]( https://lexfridman.com/contact">https://lexfridman.com/contact **EPISODE LINKS:** Pavel’s Telegram: [https://t.me/durov]( https://t.me/durov">https://t.me/durov Pavel’s X: [https://x.com/durov]( https://x.com/durov">https://x.com/durov Telegram: [https://telegram.org/]( https://telegram.org/">https://telegram.org/ Telegram Contests: [https://contest.com/]( https://contest.com/">https://contest.com/ **SPONSORS:** To support this podcast, check out our sponsors & get discounts: **Miro:** Online collaborative whiteboard platform. Go to [https://miro.com/]( https://lexfridman.com/s/miro-ep482-sc">https://miro.com/ **UPLIFT Desk:** Standing desks and office ergonomics. Go to [https://upliftdesk.com/lex]( https://lexfridman.com/s/uplift\_desk-ep482-sc">https://upliftdesk.com/lex **Fin:** AI agent for customer service. Go to [https://fin.ai/lex]( https://lexfridman.com/s/fin-ep482-sc">https://fin.ai/lex **LMNT:** Zero-sugar electrolyte drink mix. Go to [https://drinkLMNT.com/lex]( https://lexfridman.com/s/lmnt-ep482-sc">https://drinkLMNT.com/lex **Shopify:** Sell stuff online. Go to [https://shopify.com/lex]( https://lexfridman.com/s/shopify-ep482-sc">https://shopify.com/lex **OUTLINE:** (00:00) – Introduction (02:46) – Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections (11:29) – Philosophy of freedom (14:37) – No alcohol (22:42) – No phone (28:38) – Discipline (49:50) – Telegram: Lean philosophy, privacy, and geopolitics (1:05:12) – Arrest in France (1:21:23) – Romanian elections (1:32:18) – Power and corruption (1:41:50) – Intense education (1:53:51) – Nikolai Durov (1:58:19) – Programming and video games (2:02:33) – VK origins & engineering (2:19:46) – Hiring a great team (2:29:02) – Telegram engineering & design (2:48:04) – Encryption (2:53:01) – Open source (2:57:48) – Edward Snowden (3:00:20) – Intelligence agencies (3:01:32) – Iran and Russia government pressure (3:04:41) – Apple (3:11:38) – Poisoning (3:43:53) – Money (3:52:45) – TON (4:02:35) – Bitcoin (4:05:34) – Two chairs dilemma (4:12:14) – Children (4:23:24) – Father (4:27:55) – Quantum immortality (4:34:27) – Kafka **PODCAST LINKS:** – Podcast Website: [https://lexfridman.com/podcast]( https://lexfridman.com/podcast">https://lexfridman.com/podcast – Apple Podcasts: [https://apple.co/2lwqZIr]( https://apple.co/2lwqZIr">https://apple.co/2lwqZIr – Spotify: [https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8]( https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8">https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 – RSS: [https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/]( https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/">https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ – Podcast Playlist: [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP\_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4]( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP\_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4">https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP\_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 – Clips Channel: [https://www.youtube.com/lexclips]( https://www.youtube.com/lexclips">https://www.youtube.com/lexclips